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	<title>Comments for Antony Loewenstein</title>
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	<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Israel the aggressor must accept reasonable and unbiased criticism by Stewart Mills</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/23/israel-the-aggressor-must-accept-reasonable-and-unbiased-criticism/#comment-436602</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5546#comment-436602</guid>
		<description>Of course I acknowledge and feel remorse for any racism, violence and oppression the Jewish community as felt.  See for example:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf25.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/chron.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Poland.html

However, this is not a blank cheque to forcibly create  a Jewish state in a region without the democratic consent of the local inhabitants.

I realise the above reflection will be offensive to many who have grown up with the belief that Jewish security is dependent on the presence of a Jewish nationalist state based in the historic region occupied by ancient Hebrew people.  

However, as difficult as it is to read please be assured that the purpose of writing this reflection is to help build a future where the 11 million human beings in the trouble region of Israel and Palestine may find creative and sustainable ways to live in peace.  Peace is based on attaining fundamental needs such as justice, security, meaning, identity and autonomy.  A balanced interpretation of the history of the region is essential for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I acknowledge and feel remorse for any racism, violence and oppression the Jewish community as felt.  See for example:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf25.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf25.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/chron.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/chron.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Poland.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Poland.html</a></p>
<p>However, this is not a blank cheque to forcibly create  a Jewish state in a region without the democratic consent of the local inhabitants.</p>
<p>I realise the above reflection will be offensive to many who have grown up with the belief that Jewish security is dependent on the presence of a Jewish nationalist state based in the historic region occupied by ancient Hebrew people.  </p>
<p>However, as difficult as it is to read please be assured that the purpose of writing this reflection is to help build a future where the 11 million human beings in the trouble region of Israel and Palestine may find creative and sustainable ways to live in peace.  Peace is based on attaining fundamental needs such as justice, security, meaning, identity and autonomy.  A balanced interpretation of the history of the region is essential for this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Israel the aggressor must accept reasonable and unbiased criticism by Antony Loewenstein</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/23/israel-the-aggressor-must-accept-reasonable-and-unbiased-criticism/#comment-436587</link>
		<dc:creator>Antony Loewenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5546#comment-436587</guid>
		<description>(The following comment is from Stewart Mills):

Moshe: Thank God for brave voices of reason and compassion, people like Antony Loewenstein. To get an insight into why the UNS General Assembly plan to divide British-mandate Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and an international city was an unjust proposition, consider the following.

http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/

1. Thirty years before 87 percent of the region was not-Jewish.
http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com/
http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf

2. The region had not had a significant Jewish majority for over two millennia.

3. The Jewish State had a slim majority of 498,000 Jews to 407,000 non-Jews. Although in reality the number of Arabs living in the Jewish state was potentially greater than the number of Jews considering:

(a) Jaffa the largest Palestinian Arab town (with a population of 55,000 Muslims, 16,000 Christians and 30,000 Jews) was excised from the Jewish state and placed into the Arab state despite being geographically cut-off from the Arab state. To demonstrate the precariousness of such a decision Jaffa was a prime target for the Jewish military and was surrounded and defeated by Irgun (led by Menachem Begin) and Haganah on 12 May 1948 two days before the Jewish Agency declared the state of Israel (Lapidot).

(b) 90,000 Bedouins were not included in the Jewish state despite being permitted to live in the Jewish State to graze during the dry season. This potentially underestimated the number of Arabs in the Jewish state (UNSCOP 1947).

4. The decision to partition was undemocratically decided (from the point of view of the inhabitants)

The citizens of the region (i.e. British-mandate Palestine) were not given a choice. They were left to the whim of western politicians and western domestic politics. There was no plebiscite for the region as had been initiated in Czechoslovakia, Greece, Kashmir and Korea.
Noted personalities such as Sir Isaac Isaacs acknowledged this failure of democratic principles to operate on this question. Isaacs in the 1940’s was embroiled in a ferocious debate with Julius Stone about the proposal for creating a Jewish State in British-mandate Palestine (Stone 1944). Isaacs favoured a democratic approach. Isaacs argued it was unjust to impose Jewish nationalism on a region whose inhabitants had for millennia not had a Jewish majority (Isaacs 1946).

Isaacs said let the human beings living in British-mandate Palestine decide their future. In contrast Stone favoured a Jewish nationalist approach which sought to turn back the clock two thousand years and recreate a Jewish state. Stone blinkered by the tragedy of the holocaust in Europe (like another legal giant Brandeis of the US and our own Dr Evatt a devotee of Brandeis) mistakingly believed that the creation of a Jewish state in historic Israel would help provide Jewish security for the Jewish people.

5. Unfair pressure was placed on smaller nations to back the UN General Assembly Resolution

A lot has been said about the United Nations creating Israel. Like many nation-state creation stories this is a partial truth. There were just 33 countries who voted in favour of creating a Jewish state, an Arab state and an international city of Jerusalem. 13 countries voted against partition and 10 countries including the United Kingdom abstained. The vote was only in the affirmative through heavy politiciking of the United States. The General Assembly Partition plan (29 Nov 1947) was initially to be voted on 26 August but the vote was postponed on two occasions until it was clear the necessary two-thirds majority (including abstentions) would be gained. The decisive votes were obtained from Haiti, Liberia and Philippines. Each of these three countries were pushed e.g. Haiti and Philippines in terms of aid and Liberia in terms of contracts for rubber exports to Firestone Tyre company. The Philippines itself had spoken against partition but when
 the vote came her delegates were told to vote in favour. (Smith 1947).

6. The UN Security Council rejected the General Assembly Partition plan
The General Assembly then charged the Security Council with final deliberation on the partition plan. The United Nations Security Council in March 1948 rejected the General Assembly partition plan as it endangered international peace and security. So they recalled the General assembly to meet in April and May 1948. By this time the US had proposed placing Palestine under UN trusteeship. The Jewish Agency was outraged and decided that they would create a Jewish state whether or not they had the United Nations support. They did this on 14 May 1948.

Conclusion

History has shown that Stone was wrong and Isaacs (and the likes of Antony Loewenstein) are/was correct. Forcibly creating a Jewish state in a region which had not had a Jewish majority for over two thousand years was a disaster for world peace. Isaacs said in the 1940s:

“the Zionist movement as a whole…makes demands that are arousing the antagonism of the Moslem world of nearly 400 millions, thereby menacing the safety of our Empire, endangering world peace and imperiling some of the most sacred associations of the Jewish, Christian, and Moslem faiths. Besides their inherent injustice to others these demands would, I believe, seriously and detrimentally affect the general position of Jews throughout the world” (Isaacs p. 8-9).

Sir Isaac Isaacs was right. War was a consequence of trying to impose the Jewish nationalist ideology on peoples who were not Jewish. Sure, blame can be shared to include those within the Arab Palestinian and Arab neighbours who committed violence against the Jewish community from the 1920s until today. However, failure to acknowledge the basic injustice that forcibly establishing a state base on ethnicity to an ethnic group who had not had a majority in that region for over two thousand years was bound to lead to war.

The region will continue to be at war whilst Jewish nationalist ideology is championed as opposed to acknowledging past injustices and basing statehood on it’s citizens.

Sources

Gandhi, The Jews', Harijan, November 26, 1938 http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/writings_online/articles/gandhi_jews_palestine.html#'The Jews', by Gandhi - From Harijan, November 26, 1938; http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/mideast.htm

Isaacs, I. Palestine: Peace and Prosperity or War and Destruction? Political Zionism: Undemocratic, Unjust, Dangerous. Ramsay Ware Publishing, 1946.

Lapidot Yehuda, ‘The Conquest of Jaffa’. http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac18.htm

Smith, Lawrence, US Congressional Record - House. pp.11652-11658, 18 December 1947.

Stone, J, “Stand up and be counted!” An open letter to the Rt Hon Sir Isaac Isaacs on the occasion of the 26th anniversary of the Jewish National Home, 1944

UNSCOP 1947, http://www.mideastweb.org/unscop1947.htm

http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/

http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(The following comment is from Stewart Mills):</p>
<p>Moshe: Thank God for brave voices of reason and compassion, people like Antony Loewenstein. To get an insight into why the UNS General Assembly plan to divide British-mandate Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and an international city was an unjust proposition, consider the following.</p>
<p><a href="http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>1. Thirty years before 87 percent of the region was not-Jewish.<br />
<a href="http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf</a></p>
<p>2. The region had not had a significant Jewish majority for over two millennia.</p>
<p>3. The Jewish State had a slim majority of 498,000 Jews to 407,000 non-Jews. Although in reality the number of Arabs living in the Jewish state was potentially greater than the number of Jews considering:</p>
<p>(a) Jaffa the largest Palestinian Arab town (with a population of 55,000 Muslims, 16,000 Christians and 30,000 Jews) was excised from the Jewish state and placed into the Arab state despite being geographically cut-off from the Arab state. To demonstrate the precariousness of such a decision Jaffa was a prime target for the Jewish military and was surrounded and defeated by Irgun (led by Menachem Begin) and Haganah on 12 May 1948 two days before the Jewish Agency declared the state of Israel (Lapidot).</p>
<p>(b) 90,000 Bedouins were not included in the Jewish state despite being permitted to live in the Jewish State to graze during the dry season. This potentially underestimated the number of Arabs in the Jewish state (UNSCOP 1947).</p>
<p>4. The decision to partition was undemocratically decided (from the point of view of the inhabitants)</p>
<p>The citizens of the region (i.e. British-mandate Palestine) were not given a choice. They were left to the whim of western politicians and western domestic politics. There was no plebiscite for the region as had been initiated in Czechoslovakia, Greece, Kashmir and Korea.<br />
Noted personalities such as Sir Isaac Isaacs acknowledged this failure of democratic principles to operate on this question. Isaacs in the 1940’s was embroiled in a ferocious debate with Julius Stone about the proposal for creating a Jewish State in British-mandate Palestine (Stone 1944). Isaacs favoured a democratic approach. Isaacs argued it was unjust to impose Jewish nationalism on a region whose inhabitants had for millennia not had a Jewish majority (Isaacs 1946).</p>
<p>Isaacs said let the human beings living in British-mandate Palestine decide their future. In contrast Stone favoured a Jewish nationalist approach which sought to turn back the clock two thousand years and recreate a Jewish state. Stone blinkered by the tragedy of the holocaust in Europe (like another legal giant Brandeis of the US and our own Dr Evatt a devotee of Brandeis) mistakingly believed that the creation of a Jewish state in historic Israel would help provide Jewish security for the Jewish people.</p>
<p>5. Unfair pressure was placed on smaller nations to back the UN General Assembly Resolution</p>
<p>A lot has been said about the United Nations creating Israel. Like many nation-state creation stories this is a partial truth. There were just 33 countries who voted in favour of creating a Jewish state, an Arab state and an international city of Jerusalem. 13 countries voted against partition and 10 countries including the United Kingdom abstained. The vote was only in the affirmative through heavy politiciking of the United States. The General Assembly Partition plan (29 Nov 1947) was initially to be voted on 26 August but the vote was postponed on two occasions until it was clear the necessary two-thirds majority (including abstentions) would be gained. The decisive votes were obtained from Haiti, Liberia and Philippines. Each of these three countries were pushed e.g. Haiti and Philippines in terms of aid and Liberia in terms of contracts for rubber exports to Firestone Tyre company. The Philippines itself had spoken against partition but when<br />
 the vote came her delegates were told to vote in favour. (Smith 1947).</p>
<p>6. The UN Security Council rejected the General Assembly Partition plan<br />
The General Assembly then charged the Security Council with final deliberation on the partition plan. The United Nations Security Council in March 1948 rejected the General Assembly partition plan as it endangered international peace and security. So they recalled the General assembly to meet in April and May 1948. By this time the US had proposed placing Palestine under UN trusteeship. The Jewish Agency was outraged and decided that they would create a Jewish state whether or not they had the United Nations support. They did this on 14 May 1948.</p>
<p>Conclusion</p>
<p>History has shown that Stone was wrong and Isaacs (and the likes of Antony Loewenstein) are/was correct. Forcibly creating a Jewish state in a region which had not had a Jewish majority for over two thousand years was a disaster for world peace. Isaacs said in the 1940s:</p>
<p>“the Zionist movement as a whole…makes demands that are arousing the antagonism of the Moslem world of nearly 400 millions, thereby menacing the safety of our Empire, endangering world peace and imperiling some of the most sacred associations of the Jewish, Christian, and Moslem faiths. Besides their inherent injustice to others these demands would, I believe, seriously and detrimentally affect the general position of Jews throughout the world” (Isaacs p. 8-9).</p>
<p>Sir Isaac Isaacs was right. War was a consequence of trying to impose the Jewish nationalist ideology on peoples who were not Jewish. Sure, blame can be shared to include those within the Arab Palestinian and Arab neighbours who committed violence against the Jewish community from the 1920s until today. However, failure to acknowledge the basic injustice that forcibly establishing a state base on ethnicity to an ethnic group who had not had a majority in that region for over two thousand years was bound to lead to war.</p>
<p>The region will continue to be at war whilst Jewish nationalist ideology is championed as opposed to acknowledging past injustices and basing statehood on it’s citizens.</p>
<p>Sources</p>
<p>Gandhi, The Jews&#8217;, Harijan, November 26, 1938 <a href="http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/writings_online/articles/gandhi_jews_palestine.html#" rel="nofollow">http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/writings_online/articles/gandhi_jews_palestine.html#</a>&#8216;The Jews&#8217;, by Gandhi - From Harijan, November 26, 1938; <a href="http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/mideast.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/mideast.htm</a></p>
<p>Isaacs, I. Palestine: Peace and Prosperity or War and Destruction? Political Zionism: Undemocratic, Unjust, Dangerous. Ramsay Ware Publishing, 1946.</p>
<p>Lapidot Yehuda, ‘The Conquest of Jaffa’. <a href="http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac18.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac18.htm</a></p>
<p>Smith, Lawrence, US Congressional Record - House. pp.11652-11658, 18 December 1947.</p>
<p>Stone, J, “Stand up and be counted!” An open letter to the Rt Hon Sir Isaac Isaacs on the occasion of the 26th anniversary of the Jewish National Home, 1944</p>
<p>UNSCOP 1947, <a href="http://www.mideastweb.org/unscop1947.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mideastweb.org/unscop1947.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://palestineisraeltrusteeship.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.1948.com.au/2008events/national/letters/STEWARTMILLSLettertoRudd.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by gandhi</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-436547</link>
		<dc:creator>gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-436547</guid>
		<description>There are none so blind as those who will not see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are none so blind as those who will not see.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Jew who feels shame about Israel&#8217;s actions by lester john</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/03/13/many-jews-feel-shame-about-israels-actions/#comment-436472</link>
		<dc:creator>lester john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/03/13/many-jews-feel-shame-about-israels-actions/#comment-436472</guid>
		<description>quot: "Many Diaspora Jews, myself included, remain ashamed..."
and that is why you are a diaspora jew, not only in presence in but in soul.
people like you invented the "stokholm sindrom" before it was detected and named.
and that is why you'll always be diaspora jew and like it is sais in the hagada of peshkh about the the "bad" son: if he were there  (in egypt) he would not have been saved with the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quot: &#8220;Many Diaspora Jews, myself included, remain ashamed&#8230;&#8221;<br />
and that is why you are a diaspora jew, not only in presence in but in soul.<br />
people like you invented the &#8220;stokholm sindrom&#8221; before it was detected and named.<br />
and that is why you&#8217;ll always be diaspora jew and like it is sais in the hagada of peshkh about the the &#8220;bad&#8221; son: if he were there  (in egypt) he would not have been saved with the others.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by Steve perks</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-436463</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve perks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-436463</guid>
		<description>Many Arabs fled on orders from Arab leaders from the neighbouring countries who told them to get out so they could go in and push the Jews into the sea. Others left because they didn’t want to get caught in the firing line as the Arab countries were planning to go in and kill the nascent Jewish state.

I think you need to read up oin Dier Yassin and stop swallowing propoganda - is this rubbush taught to israeli children?
Do they learn about the terrorist Begin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many Arabs fled on orders from Arab leaders from the neighbouring countries who told them to get out so they could go in and push the Jews into the sea. Others left because they didn’t want to get caught in the firing line as the Arab countries were planning to go in and kill the nascent Jewish state.</p>
<p>I think you need to read up oin Dier Yassin and stop swallowing propoganda - is this rubbush taught to israeli children?<br />
Do they learn about the terrorist Begin?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Israel the aggressor must accept reasonable and unbiased criticism by moshe</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/23/israel-the-aggressor-must-accept-reasonable-and-unbiased-criticism/#comment-436251</link>
		<dc:creator>moshe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5546#comment-436251</guid>
		<description>Liberal bleeding heart Anthony spouts off from his soap box and preaches his preach.  Zionism achieved its goal of attaining international recognition to Jewish self determination in 1948 with the UN vote which preceeded the Independence War which Israel won.  Its pure propaganda to attempt to talk of Zioniam in terms of racism.  Unless every nationality that seeks self determination are racists.  Durban 1 or 2 does not speak about what's happening in Africa.  Instead it seeks to employ the UN as an outside force to break Israel's will to reject the Arab states rejection of Jewish self determination.  

The Liberals cry:  The Palestinians boo hoo!  The negotiations that Israel recognized the PLO as the leading represenative of the "so called" Palestinians - that the PLO recognize Jewish self determination.  Today Hamas still does not recognized Jewish self determination, so there's no door to negotiate between terrorists and my People, this includes Kappo Jews like Anthony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberal bleeding heart Anthony spouts off from his soap box and preaches his preach.  Zionism achieved its goal of attaining international recognition to Jewish self determination in 1948 with the UN vote which preceeded the Independence War which Israel won.  Its pure propaganda to attempt to talk of Zioniam in terms of racism.  Unless every nationality that seeks self determination are racists.  Durban 1 or 2 does not speak about what&#8217;s happening in Africa.  Instead it seeks to employ the UN as an outside force to break Israel&#8217;s will to reject the Arab states rejection of Jewish self determination.  </p>
<p>The Liberals cry:  The Palestinians boo hoo!  The negotiations that Israel recognized the PLO as the leading represenative of the &#8220;so called&#8221; Palestinians - that the PLO recognize Jewish self determination.  Today Hamas still does not recognized Jewish self determination, so there&#8217;s no door to negotiate between terrorists and my People, this includes Kappo Jews like Anthony.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by moshe</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-436240</link>
		<dc:creator>moshe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-436240</guid>
		<description>S Perry,

Very well said.  When all around you spewed tumah emotionalism you responded with respect and maturity.  Your emotional development and your logical and rational arguments wow I find them both motivating and inspiring.  Thank You.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S Perry,</p>
<p>Very well said.  When all around you spewed tumah emotionalism you responded with respect and maturity.  Your emotional development and your logical and rational arguments wow I find them both motivating and inspiring.  Thank You.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by S Perry</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-435983</link>
		<dc:creator>S Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-435983</guid>
		<description>Mike, as for being kicked from their homes, this isn't entirely accurate. Many Arabs fled on orders from Arab leaders from the neighbouring countries who told them to get out so they could go in and push the Jews into the sea. Others left because they didn't want to get caught in the firing line as the Arab countries were planning to go in and kill the nascent Jewish state.

These Arab leaders went in to not "protect" anyone but to instead kill the Jews. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." Don't think they were trying to protect anyone there mate.

Isn't it surprising that even though the Jews were pushed around, killed and slaughtered by the Nazis (a good 6 million of them), that they didn't teach their children to go blow up German civilians and wipe Germany off the map?

As we well know, the Jews have experienced endless discrimination, killings and pogroms for hundreds of years. Despite this, the Jews haven't decided to whine, complain and hate other peple but instead they get on with their lives, decide to survive and build a better life for their future offspring. Throughout all of this they've still managed to contribute an enormous amount to humanity over the centuries. And they've managed to build a great state despite immense internal and external pressures. Pretty impressive you might say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, as for being kicked from their homes, this isn&#8217;t entirely accurate. Many Arabs fled on orders from Arab leaders from the neighbouring countries who told them to get out so they could go in and push the Jews into the sea. Others left because they didn&#8217;t want to get caught in the firing line as the Arab countries were planning to go in and kill the nascent Jewish state.</p>
<p>These Arab leaders went in to not &#8220;protect&#8221; anyone but to instead kill the Jews. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: &#8220;This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.&#8221; Don&#8217;t think they were trying to protect anyone there mate.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it surprising that even though the Jews were pushed around, killed and slaughtered by the Nazis (a good 6 million of them), that they didn&#8217;t teach their children to go blow up German civilians and wipe Germany off the map?</p>
<p>As we well know, the Jews have experienced endless discrimination, killings and pogroms for hundreds of years. Despite this, the Jews haven&#8217;t decided to whine, complain and hate other peple but instead they get on with their lives, decide to survive and build a better life for their future offspring. Throughout all of this they&#8217;ve still managed to contribute an enormous amount to humanity over the centuries. And they&#8217;ve managed to build a great state despite immense internal and external pressures. Pretty impressive you might say.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by rob</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-435960</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-435960</guid>
		<description>S Perry, you just dont get it do you?
You can sit and write around this issue for as long as you like, but the truth will be there for all (or anyone prepared to look) to see.  Allow me to explain....
(1) Israel is the aggressor in this story. Full Stop!
(2) Zionists claimed land that did not belong to them.  Thats right, people from Europe who came to Palestine with the moral authority of "the chosen people" cannot be considered as having a territorial right over people living on land for centuries.
(3) I dont hate Jews, I dont hate anyone, but I sure as hell can see that the Palestinians have been &#38; continue to be wronged by Israel.
(4) Israeli civilians commit hate crimes against the Palestinian population.  Its not reported in the Western news as widely as the hate crimes committed upon Jews by Palestinians.
(5) Israeli civilians are just as indoctrinated in the hatred of Arabs - I have heard their stories, I have seen their actions.  So please, lets have a balanced debate about who hates more? Jews or Arabs?
(6) There are monsters within the Israeli military. These monsters are allowed to carry weapons and detain people at their whim.  Just in case you needed proof, I have just watched a video of an Israeli 'hero' shoot a Palestinian youth in the leg at point-blank range with a 'rubberised' bullet - what a hero, you should be so proud to have people like that representing the virtuous one in the Middle East.  Just imagine the unspeakable acts that are/have been committed by Israel in 'closed military zones?'  Does anyone remember Jenin?
(7) Palestinians have (surprise, surprise) formed para-military groups to fight back against Israel's barbaric policies.  Remember the true heroes of Warsaw, they rightly formed groups in an attempt to defend themselves.
(8) Dont paint Israel as the victim here.
(9) Dont paint the Palestinians as the bad guys either.
(10) Stop lying about the so-called generous offer made to Arafat at Camp David.  That old one has been debunked on numerous occasions - so lets drop the charade.
(11) The PA and Israel have been 'talking peace' for nearly 30 years.  What has the process provided the Palestinians - nothing!  The whole dammed thing is a charade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S Perry, you just dont get it do you?<br />
You can sit and write around this issue for as long as you like, but the truth will be there for all (or anyone prepared to look) to see.  Allow me to explain&#8230;.<br />
(1) Israel is the aggressor in this story. Full Stop!<br />
(2) Zionists claimed land that did not belong to them.  Thats right, people from Europe who came to Palestine with the moral authority of &#8220;the chosen people&#8221; cannot be considered as having a territorial right over people living on land for centuries.<br />
(3) I dont hate Jews, I dont hate anyone, but I sure as hell can see that the Palestinians have been &amp; continue to be wronged by Israel.<br />
(4) Israeli civilians commit hate crimes against the Palestinian population.  Its not reported in the Western news as widely as the hate crimes committed upon Jews by Palestinians.<br />
(5) Israeli civilians are just as indoctrinated in the hatred of Arabs - I have heard their stories, I have seen their actions.  So please, lets have a balanced debate about who hates more? Jews or Arabs?<br />
(6) There are monsters within the Israeli military. These monsters are allowed to carry weapons and detain people at their whim.  Just in case you needed proof, I have just watched a video of an Israeli &#8216;hero&#8217; shoot a Palestinian youth in the leg at point-blank range with a &#8216;rubberised&#8217; bullet - what a hero, you should be so proud to have people like that representing the virtuous one in the Middle East.  Just imagine the unspeakable acts that are/have been committed by Israel in &#8216;closed military zones?&#8217;  Does anyone remember Jenin?<br />
(7) Palestinians have (surprise, surprise) formed para-military groups to fight back against Israel&#8217;s barbaric policies.  Remember the true heroes of Warsaw, they rightly formed groups in an attempt to defend themselves.<br />
(8) Dont paint Israel as the victim here.<br />
(9) Dont paint the Palestinians as the bad guys either.<br />
(10) Stop lying about the so-called generous offer made to Arafat at Camp David.  That old one has been debunked on numerous occasions - so lets drop the charade.<br />
(11) The PA and Israel have been &#8216;talking peace&#8217; for nearly 30 years.  What has the process provided the Palestinians - nothing!  The whole dammed thing is a charade.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t dare slam the holy Jewish state by Mike</title>
		<link>http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2008/07/24/dont-dare-slam-the-holy-jewish-state/#comment-435811</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antonyloewenstein.com/?p=5567#comment-435811</guid>
		<description>S Perry either that or the Israelis and people like yourself who support everything this state does unconditionally should acknowledge that in 1948 Jews marched onto land that was inhabited by other people and kicked people from their homes and stole their land. They should acknowledge that these aggressive actions ilicited a half hearted response by the Arab nations into "protecting" these indigenous inhabitants. They should also acknowledge that the way they have treated these people for so long since has contributed to their "hatred" by the occupied people. To suggest that they are just irrational people who just hate Jews because its a fashionable thing to do or taught to hate for the sake of being taught is intellectually dishonest and profoundly stupid. I guess youve been taught by your elders to mouth the rhetoric you mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S Perry either that or the Israelis and people like yourself who support everything this state does unconditionally should acknowledge that in 1948 Jews marched onto land that was inhabited by other people and kicked people from their homes and stole their land. They should acknowledge that these aggressive actions ilicited a half hearted response by the Arab nations into &#8220;protecting&#8221; these indigenous inhabitants. They should also acknowledge that the way they have treated these people for so long since has contributed to their &#8220;hatred&#8221; by the occupied people. To suggest that they are just irrational people who just hate Jews because its a fashionable thing to do or taught to hate for the sake of being taught is intellectually dishonest and profoundly stupid. I guess youve been taught by your elders to mouth the rhetoric you mouth.</p>
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